Transcript from GDTV 2009, From Pharaohs to Facebook: Egypt Today. Guests include: Ambassador Francis Ricciardone, Jr., former U.S. Ambassador to the Arab Republic of Egypt; Ahmet Abul Gheit , Foreign Minister, Arab Republic of Egypt; Abdel Said Aly, Director, Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies; Nabil Fahmy, Former Egyptian Ambassador to the U.S.; Amin Abaza, Minister of Agriculture, Arab Republic of Egypt; Shibley Telhami, Anwar Sadat Chair for Peace and Development, University of Maryland; Amre Moussa, Secretary-General, Arab League; Wael Abbas, Egyptian Blogger; Mona Eltahawy, Egyptian Reporter; Maha Azzazm, Associate Fellow, Chatham House; Jimmy Carter, 39th President of the United States of America; Christiane Amanpour, Chief International Correspondent, CNN
Transcript:
Narrator: IN 2005, JUST A MONTH AFTER ASSUMING THE OFFICE OF SECRETARY OF STATE, CONDOLEEZZA RICE ABRUPTLY CANCELED A SCHEDULED TRIP TO EGYPT. THE REASON? TO PROTEST THE JAILING OF THE COUNTRY'S LEADING LIBERAL OPPOSITION LEADER. THIS VERY PUBLIC REBUKE OF A COUNTRY THAT THE U.S. HAS SHOWERED WITH BILLIONS IN ANNUAL AID FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF A COMPLICATED YET CRITICAL RELATIONSHIP.
(people chanting)
Francis Riccardione: A CENTRAL FEATURE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP SINCE CAMP DAVID, SINCE THE TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL IN MARCH 1979, HAD BEEN-- HAS BEEN ECONOMIC AND MILITARY ASSISTANCE.
Jimmy Carter: EGYPT HAS ALSO BENEFITED TREMENDOUSLY FROM BEING GUARANTEED PEACE. SO THEIR ECONOMIC PROGRESS HAS BEEN GOOD, THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN STABLE, AND ALTHOUGH THE PEACE BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL IS KIND OF A COOL PEACE, OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY AGREES IT IS BETTER THAN WAR.
Narrator: FOR DECADES, U.S. PRESIDENTS HAVE POURED AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS INTO THE MIDDLE EAST, IN THEIR EFFORTS TO BRING ABOUT PEACE. THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, NO ARAB COUNTRY HAS BEEN MORE CRITICAL THAN EGYPT.
Shibley Telhami: IT'S THE ANCHOR OF PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE ARAB WORLD. IT IS AN ANCHOR IN THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S., IN TERMS OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY.
Francis Ricciardone, Jr: IT'S VITALLY IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES THAT EGYPT SUCCEED AS A ROCK OF STABILITY IN THE REGION, A FORCE FOR PEACE IN THE REGION. AND YET, AT THE SAME TIME, IT GOES BEYOND STABILITY AND LETS LOOSE THE DYNAMISM OF ITS PEOPLE, THAT IT OPENS UP AND THAT IT SHOWS THE WAY FOR OTHER STATES TO REFORM POLITICALLY AND CULTURALLY EVEN. SO OUR AID HAS BEEN IMPORTANT AND HAS CONTRIBUTED.
Narrator: BUT 30 YEARS AFTER THE SIGNING OF THE U.S.-BROKERED CAMP DAVID PEACE ACCORDS, MUCH HAS CHANGED. AMERICA IS PUSHING DEMOCRACY IN THE ARAB WORLD.
Christiane Amanpour: WE HAVE TO ENCOURAGE DEMOCRACY, BUT ALSO IF WE'RE GONNA DO THAT, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE IN OUR LIKENESS.
narrator: HOW WILL A NEW U.S. ADMINISTRATION UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA RELATE WITH EGYPT TODAY? AND WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EGYPT ITSELF? A COUNTRY IN THE MIDST OF SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, AND POLITICAL TRANSITION. "FROM PHARAOHS TO FACEBOOK: EGYPT TODAY." COMING UP NEXT ON GREAT DECISIONS.
Walter Cronkite: IN A DEMOCRACY, AGREEMENT IS NOT ESSENTIAL, BUT PARTICIPATION IS. JOIN US AS WE DISCUSS TODAY'S MOST CRITICAL GLOBAL ISSUES. JOIN US FOR GREAT DECISIONS. GREAT DECISIONS IS PRODUCED BY THE FOREIGN POLICY ASSOCIATION, INSPIRING AMERICANS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE WORLD. FUNDING FOR GREAT DECISIONS IS PROVIDED BY THE STARR FOUNDATION AND ORASCOM TELECOMMUNICATIONS.
narrator: GREAT DECISIONS TRAVELED TO CAIRO TO SEE FIRSTHAND WHERE U.S.-EGYPT RELATIONS STAND TODAY. ONE THING IS CERTAIN: DESPITE DISAGREEMENTS, EGYPT REMAINS A CRITICAL U.S. ALLY IN THE ARAB WORLD. AHMET ABUL GHEIT IS EGYPT'S FOREIGN MINISTER.
Ahmet Abul Gheit: IT IS A PROPER RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE AMERICA LOOKS AT EGYPT AS AN IMPORTANT FRIEND...A STRATEGIC PLAYER IN THAT REGION.
narrator: THIS HAS BEEN TRUE SINCE THE CAMP DAVID PEACE ACCORDS. IN 1978, PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER HELPED CONVINCE PRESIDENT ANWAR SADAT TO MAKE EGYPT THE FIRST ARAB COUNTRY TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE ISRAEL.
TV Announcer: AFTER A HIGH-PRESSURE SUMMIT AT JIMMY CARTER'S CAMP DAVID RETREAT, PREMIER BEGIN AND PRESIDENT SADAT PROMISED TO SIGN A FORMAL PEACE TREATY WITHIN THREE MONTHS.
Jimmy Carter: I'm so proud of both of you-- God bless you both.
narrator: FOLLOWING YEARS OF BLOODY CONFLICT, HOSTILITIES BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL CEASED. IT WAS HOPED THE TREATY WOULD SERVE AS A MODEL FOR THE REGION.
Jimmy Carter: NOT A SINGLE WORD OF THAT TREATY HAS BEEN VIOLATED IN THE LAST 30 YEARS OR SO. THE REASON FOR IT HAS BEEN THAT IT'S BEEN EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL TO BOTH THE SIGNATORIES. IT'S BEEN BENEFICIAL TO EGYPT AND IT'S BEEN BENEFICIAL TO ISRAEL.
narrator: BUT IT WASN'T JUST GOODWILL THAT GOT THE DEAL DONE. THERE WAS CASH INVOLVED--BILLIONS IN AID EVERY YEAR TO BOTH COUNTRIES.
Amer Kayani: FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, WE PROVIDED ABOUT $58 BILLION IN MILITARY AND ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE TO EGYPT.
narrator: AS PART OF THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS, EGYPT TOOK ON A LEADING ROLE IN BROKERING PEACE BETWEEN THE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS. MORE THAN 30 YEARS LATER, HOWEVER, THAT CONFLICT IS FAR FROM RESOLVED. ARAB LEAGUE SECRETARY-GENERAL AMR MOUSSA WAS AT CAMP DAVID.
Amr Moussa: AT THAT TIME, WE HOPED THAT THINGS WOULD DEVELOP IN A COMPREHENSIVE WAY IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE PEACE, ESPECIALLY ON THE PALESTINIAN TRACK. BUT AS YOU SEE, THINGS HAVE BECOME VERY COMPLICATED.
(man shouting)
narrator: EGYPT'S ROLE AS A PEACE BROKER OVER THE YEARS HAS EVOLVED. AS ONE OF THE FEW ARAB COUNTRIES THAT CAN SPEAK TO BOTH ISRAEL AND ITS ADVERSARIES, ITS POSITION IS UNIQUE.
Abdel Monem Said Aly: SAUDI ARABIA DOES NOT TALK TO THE ISRAELIS. JORDAN DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME LEVERAGE THAT EGYPT HAS WITH ISRAEL, NOR WITH THE UNITED STATES.
narrator: EGYPT IS HELPING TO MEDIATE THE ONGOING DISPUTE BETWEEN RIVAL PALESTINIAN FACTIONS, HAMAS AND FATAH.
Nabil Aburdeneh: EGYPT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ARAB COUNTRY. IT'S ON OUR BORDERS, AND WE LIVE ON THEIR BORDERS, AND OUR INTERESTS IS THEIR INTERESTS AS WELL.
narrator: THE BORDER BETWEEN EGYPT AND GAZA HAS BEEN A FLASH POINT. IN 2008, GAZANS, FRUSTRATED BY ISRAELI BLOCKADES ON FOOD AND FUEL, BREACHED THE BORDER WITH EGYPT, A WAKE-UP CALL FOR EGYPTIAN LEADERS.
Shibley Telhami: THE GAZA ISSUE IS POTENTIALLY HUGE FOR EGYPT. IF THE PROSPECTS OF A PALESTINIAN-STATE COLLAPSE, AND GAZA IS CLOSE BY THE ISRAELIS, ONLY ONE OUTLET TO THE WORLD FOR THE GAZANS, AND THAT IS EGYPT.
narrator: MANY EGYPTIAN OFFICIALS AGREE THAT ANY PROGRESS ON THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN FRONT IS LIMITED WITHOUT GREATER U.S. ENGAGEMENT.
Ahmet Abul Gheit: WE WANT TO SEE AN AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION COMMITTED TO HELP IN BRINGING PEACE IN THIS REGION. WITHOUT SETTLING THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THIS REGION WILL CONTINUE TORMENTING ALL OF US.
narrator: AND IT'S NOT JUST ITS NEIGHBORS. EGYPT'S SHEER SIZE EXPOSES IT TO NEARLY EVERY MAJOR FLARE-UP IN THE REGION.
Abdel Said Aly: WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY WITH 80 MILLION POPULATION, SO WE ARE THE BIG WINNERS IN CASE OF PEACE. WE ARE THE BIG LOSERS IN TERMS OF WHEN THERE IS A WAR.
(explosion)
narrator: THE IRAQ WAR FURTHER COMPLICATED THE REGION.
TV announcer: THE AMERICAN MARINES ROLLED INTO THE DESERTED STREETS OF AN IRAQI CAPITAL THAT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN.
narrator: EGYPT, ALONG WITH MUCH OF THE ARAB WORLD, SUPPORTED THE 1991 GULF WAR. BUT LIKE MOST OF ITS ARAB NEIGHBORS, WAS HIGHLY CRITICAL OF THE 2003 U.S.-LED INVASION. NABIL FAHMY WAS THE EGYPTIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES AT THE TIME.
Nabil Fahmy: WE WERE AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN, AS YOU WERE, BUT WE URGED YOU TO GET A SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION BEFORE YOU WENT IN, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION FOR MILITARY ACTION, AND WE DIFFERED ON THAT.
narrator: DESPITE DISAGREEMENT, AS A STRONG ALLY, EGYPT SUPPORTED AMERICAN DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS IN IRAQ. BUT ITS SUPPORT HAD A PRICE. IN 2005, CAIRO'S AMBASSADOR IN BAGHDAD WAS KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED. IT WASN'T UNTIL 2008 THAT EGYPT REOPENED ITS EMBASSY IN BAGHDAD, LEADING THE WAY FOR OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TO DO SO.
Ahmet Abul Gheit: NOW AS THINGS IN IRAQ ARE QUIETING AND THINGS ARE IMPROVING, THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND THE SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS, WE HAVE DECIDED TO REESTABLISH OUR PRESENCE.
narrator: AS THE U.S. PUSHES FOR GREATER POLITICAL PROGRESS IN IRAQ, EGYPT SEES ITSELF WITH A DISTINCT DIPLOMATIC ROLE.
Abdel Said Aly: WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT RELATIONSHIP WITH ALL PARTIES IN IRAQ-- WITH THE KURDS, WITH THE SHIA, WITH THE SUNNIS--AND I THINK THEY VALUE EGYPTIAN OPINION.
narrator: ALTHOUGH THE U.S. AND EGYPT COOPERATE ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS, STRATEGIC RELATIONS HAVE SUFFERED IN RECENT YEARS. THE U.S.-LED WAR ON TERROR AND THE OCCUPATION OF IRAQ ARE POINTS OF CONCERN FOR MANY EGYPTIANS.
Nabil Fahmy: THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION BECAUSE WE SUPPORT THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM, ALTHOUGH WE WOULD DO SOME THINGS A BIT DIFFERENTLY.
Amr Moussa: MANY PROBLEMS, INCLUDING IRAQ, HAVE REALLY POISONED THAT RELATIONS.
Abdel Said Aly: THE NEW PRESIDENT WILL REALIZE THAT SOME OF THE MISTAKES OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS ITS NEGLECT OF THE MIDDLE EAST. THE LEASE ON THAT-- UNLESS YOU COME AFTER THE MIDDLE EAST, THE MIDDLE EAST WILL COME AFTER YOU, AND YOU WILL PAY FOR IT DEARLY.
narrator: BOTH AID AND TRADE WERE MAJOR COMPONENTS OF THE CAMP DAVID AGREEMENT, AND THE EFFECT OF THIS ASSISTANCE ON THE EGYPTIAN ECONOMY HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANT.
Francis Ricciardone, Jr: IT HAS HELPED THE EGYPTIANS GROW THEIR ECONOMY, OPEN UP THEIR ECONOMY, DECENTRALIZE IT A BIT, RESTRUCTURE.
narrator: STILL, MOST AMERICAN OFFICIALS WE SPOKE WITH WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE TRADE AND LESS AID. ALREADY 1/3 OF EGYPTIAN EXPORTS GO TO THE U.S., BUT MORE CAN BE DONE.
Amer Kayani: IF YOU LOOK AT BILATERAL TRADE IN THE ABSENCE OF A FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT, IT HAS GROWN BY 74 TO 75% IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS. SO A FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE WITH EGYPT, BUT WITHOUT THAT, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER AREAS THAT WE CAN WORK ON.
narrator: ONE SUCH AREA IS THE Q.I.Z. UNDER THIS JOINT VENTURE BETWEEN THE U.S., EGYPT, AND ISRAEL, GOODS MANUFACTURED IN DESIGNATED ZONES CAN ENTER THE U.S. DUTY-FREE, AS LONG AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE RAW MATERIAL COMES FROM ISRAEL.
Magdy Tolba: WE PRODUCE TO GAP. WE HAVE A BIG PROGRAM NOW RUNNING WITH CALVIN KLEIN. SO FROM SUCH NAMES, YOU FEEL THAT WE ARE ALMOST WITH THE CREAM OF THE SPORTSWEAR INDUSTRY IN DEPARTMENT STORES IN THE STATES.
narrator: LIKE MOST U.S. INITIATIVES, THE Q.I.Z. PROGRAM IS TIED TO REGIONAL PEACE. IN THIS CASE, THROUGH TRADE.
Ali Awni: THE CONCEPT THERE IS THAT IF YOU PROMOTE REGIONAL ECONOMIC CORPORATION, THAT WILL HELP PROMOTE REGIONAL PEACE PROCESS.
narrator: MANY IN THE U.S. HOPED THAT EGYPT'S PEACE PACT WITH ISRAEL AND ITS ECONOMIC OPENING TO THE WEST MIGHT USHER IN AN ERA OF MODERATION AND DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. THESE HOPES WERE DEALT A SEVERE BLOW IN 1981, WITH THE ASSASSINATION OF EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT ANWAR SADAT BY ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS, CREATING A STATE OF EMERGENCY THAT STILL EXISTS TODAY.
TV announcer: EGYPT HAS BEEN UNDER STRICT EMERGENCY LAW FOR MORE THAN 25 YEARS, ALLOWING THE MUBARAK GOVERNMENT UNLIMITED POWERS OF ARREST AND DETENTION.
narrator: FOR NEARLY 28 YEARS, EGYPT HAS BEEN RUN BY PRESIDENT HOSNI MUBARAK, THE COUNTRY'S LONGEST-SERVING PRESIDENT. UNTIL RECENTLY, HE WAS ELECTED BY REFERENDUM, NEVER OPPOSED, FRUSTRATING THE DEMOCRATIC HOPES OF SOME EGYPTIANS.
Maha Azzazm: THERE ARE NO FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. THE EMERGENCY LAWS IN EGYPT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 1981.
Saad Ibrahim: THE GUY HAS BEEN IN POWER FOR 28 YEARS. YOU WONDER, HOW MUCH MORE TIME DOES HE NEED?
Abdel Monem Said Aly: EGYPT IS A DEMOCRATIZING COUNTRY, AND EGYPT IS DOING IT AT ITS OWN--STRUGGLING WITH ITSELF, STRUGGLING WITH ITS POLITICAL CULTURE THAT WAS CENTRAL FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, SO THERE IS A COMPLEX PROCESS HERE, AND YOU CAN'T DO IT JUST BY A KIND OF DOCTOR'S PRESCRIPTION MADE BY SOME BRILLIANT GUYS IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT OR OTHER PLACES.
(man speaking Arabic)
narrator: IN 2005, MUBARAK ALLOWED A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WOULD PERMIT PRESIDENTIAL CHALLENGERS. HE WON AGAIN IN A LANDSLIDE.
BUT THERE WERE REPORTS OF MASS VOTE RIGGING, AND AYMAN NOUR, ONE OF THE PRESIDENT'S LIBERAL OPPONENTS, WAS ARRESTED AND DETAINED, DRAWING THE IRE OF SECRETARY RICE.
Condoleezza Rice: THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT MUST FULFILL THE PROMISE IT HAS MADE TO ITS PEOPLE AND TO THE ENTIRE WORLD BY GIVING ITS CITIZENS THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.
Christiane Amanpour: THE UNITED STATES, WHICH HAD CALLED FOR DEMOCRATIZATION IN EGYPT AND WHICH HAD FAMOUSLY SAID, FOR 60 YEARS, THE U.S. POLICY HAD BEEN TO SHORE UP THESE DICTATORSHIPS IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR OUR SECURITY AND FOR OUR ECONOMIC WELL-BEING. WELL, NO MORE, WE ARE NOW GOING TO BE FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD.
narrator: IT'S AN OBJECTIVE THAT MANY AMERICAN OFFICIALS AND HUMAN-RIGHTS ACTIVISTS SEE AS CRITICAL TODAY.
Jimmy Carter: I WAS WITH PRESIDENT MUBARAK AND HIS PRIME MINISTER IN APRIL,
AND I VERY STRONGLY URGED THEM TO REFRAIN FROM THE PERSECUTION AND IMPRISONMENT OF ANY VIABLE POLITICAL OPPONENTS THAT MIGHTARISE ON THE HORIZON THAT WOULD CHALLENGE MUBARAK OR HIS DESIGNATED SUCCESSOR,WHO MIGHT BE HIS SON.
Nabil Fahmy: THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE, BUT THE DISCUSSION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRIVATE, SERIOUS, AND WITH THE REALIZATION THAT THESE THINGS ARE GONNA TAKE TIME, AND THEY WILL HAVE TO DEVELOP INTO AN EGYPTIAN MODEL.
narrator: BUT DEMOCRACY PROMOTION IN THE REGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TRICKY BUSINESS. MANY EGYPTIANS SAW THE VERY PUBLIC REBUKE BY RICE AS TIED TO WIDER U.S. OBJECTIVES IN IRAQ.
Abdel Said Aly: PART OF THE DIFFERENCE IS DEALING WITH THE ISSUE
OF DEMOCRATIZATION, WHICH CAME LATER AS A REASON FOR AMERICAN INVASION OF IRAQ AND THE ADMINISTRATION OF GEORGE BUSH.
narrator: AND U.S. ACTIONS IN THE WAR ON TERROR UNDERMINED ITS CREDIBILITY ON ISSUES OF HUMAN RIGHTS.
Kenneth Roth: I WAS IN EGYPT A COUPLE YEARS AGO, AND I INITIALLY MET WITH THE U.S. AMBASSADOR THERE*. AND I SAID, "ARE YOU STILL ABLE "TO PROTEST EGYPT'S PERVASIVE "TORTURE AND ITS PERVASIVE "DETENTION OF SUSPECTS WITHOUT TRIAL?" AND HE HAD TO ADMIT SORT OF SHEEPISHLY, NO, HE COULDN'T POSSIBLY DO THAT ANYMORE. HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY WHEN THE U.S. DOES THE SAME THING BACK HOME.
(man singing)
narrator: OTHERS WARN THAT FREE ELECTIONS IN EGYPT WOULD LEAD TO MASSIVE VICTORIES FOR THE POPULAR ISLAMIC PARTY, THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD. FOUNDED IN 1929, THE GROUP HAS SERVED AS AN IDEOLOGICAL INSPIRATION FOR ISLAMIST GROUPS ACROSS THE REGION AND THE GLOBE.
man: ALTHOUGH OFFICIALLY BANNED, THE BROTHERHOOD CAPTURED MORE THAN 20% OF EGYPT'S PARLIAMENT BY FIELDING INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES IN 2005.
(man yelling)
Christiane Amanpour: IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE CALLED "THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD," AND IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO FORM AND ACT AS A PROPER POLITICAL PARTY, BUT THEY KNOW THAT THEIR FUTURE IS MORE DEMOCRATIC THAN MILITANT, AND I THINK THEY'RE ADAPTING TO THAT.
narrator: SOME U.S. OFFICIALS FEAR DEMOCRATIC GAINS FOR THE BROTHERHOOD COULD HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT ACROSS THE REGION, INSPIRING HARD-LINE ISLAMISTS WORLDWIDE TO TURN TO THE BALLOT.
Saad Ibrahim: AS SOON AS THE FRUITS OF THAT AGENDA BEGAN TO SHOW, IT FRIGHTENED THE POLICYMAKERS IN THE WEST, AND OUR DICTATORS LOVED IT. BECAUSE THEY SAID, "OH, SEE ? "IF WE DO ELECTIONS-- "IF WE DO FAIR AND FREE "ELECTIONS, THAT'S WHAT IT WILL BRING."
Manar El-Shorbagy: THE UNITED STATES, ESPECIALLY ON THE ISSUE OF DEMOCRACY, REALLY NEEDS TO ANSWER THE HARD QUESTIONS--WHETHER YOU ARE WILLING TO BE WORKING WITH WHOEVER THE BALLOT BOX WOULD BRING.
Christiane Amanpour: SOMETHING THAT THE WEST MAY NOT WANT TO ACCEPT IS THAT THE FIRST ITERATION OF DEMOCRACY IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD WILL HAVE AN ISLAMIC FLAVOR TO IT.
narrator: FOR NOW, THE U.S. HAS BACKED OFF. IT IS ORDINARY EGYPTIANS WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE THE CATALYST FOR ANY DEMOCRATIC AND SOCIAL REFORMS IN EGYPT TODAY.
Nabil Fahmy: 56% OF OUR POPULATION IS 25 OR YOUNGER. THIS IS WHAT'S PUSHING REFORM AND CHANGING IT.
narrator: NOWHERE IS THIS MORE APPARENT THAN ON THE INTERNET, WHERE BLOGGERS AND SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES LIKE FACEBOOK EMPOWER A NEW GENERATION.
Wael Abbas: WE HAVE POLITICAL PARTIES, WE HAVE INDEPENDENT OPPOSITION NEWSPAPERS, BUT IN REALITY, ALL THESE ARE NOT REAL. SO I WANT THEM TO BE REAL, AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE ACTIVE ON THE INTERNET. WE ARE BLOGGING, WE ARE TRYING TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE OF FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, POLITICAL PARTICIPATION.
Adel Iskandar: A LOT OF THE SOCIAL NETWORKING WEBSITES THAT SERVE THE PURPOSE OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER IS SO THEY CAN GET INVOLVED IN SOME KIND OF ACTIVISM. MOST OF THOSE ARE UNDER THE CLOSE WATCH OF THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT.
Mona Eltahawy: I THINK ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF JUST HOW THAT PHENOMENON IS AFFECTING EGYPT OF AN INCREASINGLY YOUNG POPULATION AT ODDS WITH AN INCREASINGLY AGING LEADERSHIP IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED JUST BEFORE PRESIDENT HOSNI MUBARAK TURNED 80. AND A GROUP OF YOUNG ACTIVISTS ON THE POPULAR SOCIAL NETWORKING SITE, FACEBOOK, WANTED TO ORGANIZE A DEMONSTRATION IN EGYPT.
narrator: THE GOVERNMENT REACTED SWIFTLY, ARRESTING AND DETAINING ORGANIZERS FOR WEEKS.
Mona Eltahawy: AND YOU'D THINK THAT A REGIME THAT HAS BEEN IN POWER FOR 26 YEARS FELT STRONG ENOUGH AND CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO KIND OF BRUSH IT OFF.
narrator: WHILE SOCIAL CHANGE IN EGYPT REMAINS IN FLUX, ECONOMIC REFORM HAS BEEN CONSISTENT. A ONCE-STAGNANT, LARGELY STATE-CONTROLLED ECONOMY HAS NOW COME ALIVE, CHARTING GROWTH RATES OF 7 TO 8% ANNUALLY.
TV announcer: AFTER A SERIES OF WIDE-RANGING ECONOMIC REFORMS, EGYPT IS IN AN ENVIABLE POSITION.
Shibley Telhami: IT HAS HAD VERY HIGH GROWTH RATE OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS. MUCH OF IT IN THE SHORT TERM HAS BEEN DRIVEN BY REAL STRUCTURAL CHANGE IN EGYPTIAN ECONOMY.
Mahmoud Mohieldin: IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF OUR TERM, FROM '04 TO '06, WE ADOPTED WHAT I CALL "THE OVERWHELMING APPROACH OF REFORM."
narrator: THESE CHANGES, MASS PRIVATIZATION, AND NEW LAWS MAKING IT EASIER FOR FOREIGN COMPANIES TO OPERATE, HAVE OPENED EGYPT UP TO THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.
Amr Moussa: THE ECONOMIC REFORM IS A MUST. AND IT'S STARTED, AND IT IS PRODUCING RESULTS.
Omar Mohanna: WITH THE RIGHT MANAGEMENT, YOU CAN TURN A COMPANY AROUND AND YOU CAN TURN A COUNTRY AROUND.
narrator: EGYPT IS NOT NEARLY AS EXPOSED TO THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS AS WEALTHIER COUNTRIES, BUT IT DOES POSE PROBLEMS.
Amin Abaza: IT WILL IMPACT DEFINITELY TOURISM. IT MIGHT IMPACT THE SUEZ CANAL TOLLS. IT MIGHT IMPACT ALSO THE FOREIGN DIRECT INVESTMENTS THAT WE'RE RECEIVING, AND THIS IS HELPING US TO CREATE JOBS.
Nabil Fahmy: THE ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT GLOBALLY WILL AFFECT OUR DEVELOPMENTAL PLANS, AND THAT'S, FRANKLY, OUR MAIN PRIORITY. I NEED AN EGYPT TO CREATE JOBS.
narrator: AND LOTS OF THEM. EGYPT MUST CREATE MORE THAN HALF A MILLION JOBS ANNUALLY JUST TO KEEP PACE WITH CURRENT GROWTH RATES.
Amin Abaza: OUR POPULATION GROWTH IS AROUND 1.3 MILLION PER YEAR. WE HAVE TO CREATE 750,000 JOBS A YEAR.
narrator: ECONOMIC REFORMERS HOPE TO CREATE JOBS IN THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR, WHERE AMBITIOUS PLANS TO IRRIGATE LARGE SWATHS OF DESERT ARE UNDERWAY.
Amin Abaza: WE HAVE TO MODERNIZE OUR AGRICULTURAL SYSTEMS. WE HAVE TO MODERNIZE OUR IRRIGATION SYSTEM. AND THIS WILL LEAD US TO RECLAIM MORE LAND FROM THE DESERT.
narrator: THERE ARE ALSO PLANS TO LAUNCH AN I.T. SECTOR, DESIGNED TO COMPETE ON A GLOBAL SCALE.
Nabil Fahmy: LOOK AT THESE KIDS SPEAKING ON THESE CALL CENTERS IN FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. BUT WE NEED TO DO MORE.
Omar Mohanna: ONE AREA WHERE I BELIEVE EGYPT REALLY NEEDS TO FOCUS ON IS-- I WOULD SAY, EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.
narrator: NONE ARE IN GREATER NEED THAN EGYPT'S UNDERCLASS, WHO HAVE FAILED TO BENEFIT FROM THE COUNTRY'S BOOMING NEW ECONOMY.
Nabil Fahmy: NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE MORE AFFLUENT, THE MORE WELL-TRAINED ARE GETTING MORE BENEFIT OUT OF THIS THAN THE LOWER-INCOME SECTOR OF OUR SOCIETY, AND WE NEED TO SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS.
TV announcer: EGYPT'S ECONOMY CONTINUES TO GROW. BUT AS THE RICH GROW RICHER, THE POOR EGYPTIANS ARE NOT SEEING THE BENEFITS.
narrator: DESPITE RECENT ECONOMIC GAINS, HUGE DISPARITIES IN WEALTH EXIST IN EGYPT TODAY. HIGH-END SUBURBS ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF CAIRO ARE BEING BUILT, PRIMARILY FOR THE CITY'S ELITE.
Shibley Telhami: WHEN YOU GO IN THERE, YOU THINK YOU'RE IN ARIZONA OR IN PALM SPRINGS OR SOME OTHER OASIS IN THE DESERT.
narrator: YET MILLIONS OF EGYPTIANS RELY ON FOOD SUBSIDIES JUST TO SURVIVE. THE COUNTRY WAS HIT PARTICULARLY HARD BY GLOBAL FOOD SHORTAGES LAST YEAR.
TV announcer: IN CAIRO, EGYPT, BREAD IS SO SCARCE, IT IS SOLD FROM BEHIND A BARRICADED WALL. HERE, TOO, THERE HAS BEEN DEADLY VIOLENCE, SPARKED BY OUTRAGE OVER HIGH PRICES.
Francis Ricciardone, Jr: THE EGYPTIAN DIALECT WORD FOR BREAD MEANS "LIFE," AISH. THEY DON'T USE THE ARABIC WORD, KHUBZ, SO IT'S A DEEPLY EMOTIONAL ISSUE.
Maha Azzazm: SOME FAMILIES GO WITHOUT MEAT FOR AN ENTIRE MONTH. THE STAPLE DIET IN EGYPT OF FAVA BEANS HAS BECOME ALSO VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE.
Shibley Telhami: THE GOOD STORY OF GROWTH IS NOT SO FAR MATCHED BY TRICKLE-DOWN THAT IS HELPFUL TO NOT ONLY THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE POOR, BUT ALSO TO THE POLITICAL STABILITY OF THE COUNTRY.
narrator: AS EGYPT CONTINUES IN THIS STATE OF TRANSITION, REFINING ITS SOCIAL, ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL VALUES, IT BUILDS ON THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF TRADITION, ALWAYS WITH AN EYE TO THE FUTURE. WILL THE SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. AND EGYPT CONTINUE AS CULTURAL TIES GROW?
Francis Ricciardone, Jr: IF THERE ARE ANY HAPPY OUTCOMES OF THE HORROR OF 9/11, IT IS THAT THE NATURAL INQUISITIVENESS AND CURIOSITY OF AMERICANS HAS FLOWERED WITH RESPECT TO THE ARAB WORLD, ESPECIALLY THE MUSLIM WORLD.
narrator: OR WILL DIFFERENCES OVER FOREIGN POLICY AND SENSITIVITIES OVER DEMOCRACY PROMOTION CONTINUE TO HAMPER RELATIONS?
Francis Ricciardone, Jr: THEY VALUE WHAT THE UNITED STATES HAS TO OFFER. AND IF WE OFFER THESE THINGS, ALWAYS CONSCIOUS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH FRIENDS WHO ARE PROUD AND WHO HAVE MUCH TO BE PROUD OF, THEY WELCOME IT AND THEY RESPOND TO IT.
narrator: AND HOW QUICKLY WILL SOCIAL CHANGE KEEP PACE WITH THE DEMANDS OF A NEW GENERATION OF EGYPTIANS ?
Nada el-Hammamy: THE ONE, LITTLE CHANGE THAT I'M GONNA ADD TO EGYPT AND SOMEONE ELSE'S LITTLE CHANGE EVENTUALLY WILL HAVE A HUGE EFFECT ON EGYPT.
Amr Moussa: IT IS NOT THE SAME AS TEN YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS AGO. AND THIS IS THE BEGINNING. I WON'T SAY THAT THIS IS FANTASTIC AND IT'S PERFECT--NO, NO, NOT AT ALL. AND I AM AMONG THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT WE ARE MOVING SLOWLY. WE HAVE TO HAVE A QUICKER PACE.
Nabil Fahmy: WE NEED TO PUSH CHANGE AND REFORM ROBUSTLY. WE NEED TO DO THAT IN A WISE, CONSIDERATE MANNER. WE'RE IN A PROCESS OF TRANSITION AND CHANGE. AND CONSEQUENTLY, THERE HAS TO BE SOME--FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD--TURMOIL OR SOME FRICTION BETWEEN TRADITION AND THE FUTURE.
narrator: ONE THING IS CERTAIN: EGYPT, KNOWN AS THE MOTHER OF NATIONS, WILL APPROACH THE 21st CENTURY IN A SINGULARLY EGYPTIAN WAY, CHARTING ITS OWN HISTORIC COURSE.
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*NOTE: In the Great Decisions program From Pharaohs to Facebook: Egypt Today, guest Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch refers to a discussion with an unnamed U.S. ambassador to Egypt in which the ambassador discusses the difficulty of pressing human rights issues when the U.S. is accused by some of violating human rights in its prosecution of the fight against global terrorism. Please note that the ambassador he refers to is not Ambassador Frank Ricciardone, who appears in the program. In fact, Ambassador Ricciardone repeatedly raised the cited human rights case, among many others, with the highest levels of Egyptian Government.